Wednesday, August 26, 2009
Parker vs. Sophie debate turned... bad. @ 1:30 AM
So me and Kimber started to have a very healthy yet passionate debate over Parker and Sophie and thier character arcs and stuff in the Leverage chat tonight (with Maggie, Tina, and Yu as witnesses to this whole ordeal) Unfortunately it ended up morphing into being just about Parker.
For those of you that have been reading this blog for awhile now, I have gone a little into why I love the character so much. I admire the hell out of her, and admire Beth Riesgraf for playing a character like that, to the point where it's just... really personal. There are so many things about Parker that I see in myself, except I see that Parker got it right. Parker's stronger. Parker's better. And it's just... Okay, I'll get to that afterwards.
I'm gonna post the debate, because honestly it is really interesting, and I think other's might find it interesting... until I flip out entirely at the end. Which I will explain. Fuck it. I... just don't care anymore. And really, I need to justify WHY I totally went insane in the chat. Rather not have people think I'm crazy for no reason.
Me: (talking about writing a Parker/Sophie physical fight just for the hell of it) But I don't know what the fuck would make them fight like that, and the fact that Sophie couldn't take Parker in a million years? Yeah…
Kimber: I think she could. Well....maybe not take her...but she could be a match for a LITTLE while....
Me: No she couldn't lmao. Don't kid yourself. Parker's TRAINED. Sophie? No. Ahaha
Kimber: She had to have gotten into fights before....and just when her strength starts to wane, is when Parker makes her move.
Me: While I can imagine her being STRONGER than Parker, Parker is way more skilled.
Kimber: Parker wasn't trained until ELIOT... and now they're all... how did Rogers put that?..."cross-training".... Sophie might actually be better... who knows? I just think Sophie COULD be good, IF/WHEN need be. Hand-to-hand combat is just more of a last resort for Sophie. Or in your story you could mention "Eliot's been training me, too" or something.
Maggie: Well she has been taking care of herself for a long time
Kimber: Like "When did you get so good?".... "Eliot's been training me, too".... That still wouldn’t explain WHY they're fighting, though. LMAO
Me: Parker was trained before Eliot! THE STORK JOB HELLO. Eliot didn't start training her until season 2
Kimber: I don't think that was "training" so much as "fight or flight"...the kid peeking through gave her the added "boost"... the adrenaline kicked in... she HAD to take him down to help the kids escape.
Tina: Sophie in a black sports bra type shirt with the black leggings sparring with Eliot.......... *comes back to reality* Sorry tangent thought
Kimber: I think, before Eliot, it was more....Parker could defend herself, yes....but *actual* training...no. Some people are naturally good at some things.
Me: Uh, did you not see her technique? Not many people who fight just to not be killed can do cartwheel kicky things and jumping up to hold oton a bar and yada yada… I mean most people just... don't do that.
Kimber: Parker's different, though.
Me: GAH. –headdesk- JUST LET ME BE RIGHT.
Kimber: LOL. Nope! hehe
Me: PARKER IS LIKE MY DAMN LIFE. LET ME TAKE THE WIN. DAMNIT
Kimber: I'll stick to Sophie.
Tina: "Think about when you’re father died"
Kimber: ROTFLMAO
Me: That line still doesn't make sense
Kimber: Why not? *confused* They've never specifically said how old she was when she was put in the system.
Me: Because either A) she was guessing and that’s just a weird ass thing to guess (possibly even rude) or B) Parker told her this, when Parker never showed any signs of being remotely close to Sophie, especially not where it was SUPPOSED to be placed, as the fourth episode. No way Parker would let a complete stranger know her past
Kimber: Sophie reads people for a living.
Me: You can't just read that someone’s father died.
Kimber: It's probably the "back plot" the audience will never get to see.
Me: Sophie reading people doesn't make her a mind reader.
Kimber: It's not mind reading.... but... wait... *tries to remember order now*... GAH! Aired eps or DVD eps?
Me: DVD eps
Kimber: Damn, I forget both....LOL
Me: Its supposed to be 1.04 and aired its 1.09
Kimber: Yeah, but The Wedding Job was before that.
Me: Yes, so? They didn't have any bonding scenes in that ep or any eps before that. That would make it seem like Parker would trust Sophie with that information. And no, I do not buy that she "read" it from her.
Kimber: Maybe she read something at the table.... her friend's little girl.... Parker was close to her... and it was the little girl's dad in jail... maybe Sophie saw something in Parker's eyes/body language and DID guess... just turned out her guess was correct. "Educated guess"....
Me: Beth plays Parker very well when it comes to body language and mannerisms. She also has worked out Parker's backstory on her own and plays it into how Parker’ reacts to things, so if there was something about it, Beth would have played into it physically.
Kimber: We just saw the little girl go to her mom when she said "Daddy's coming home"... We never saw any of the team. A slight hint of....longing? loathing?... something... in Parker's eyes as that scene played out that we (as an audience) didn't see.
Me: Yeah huh, the girl was on Parker's lap and they smiled and clapped. Besides, Parker has total daddy issues.
Kimber: Though I do think she killed him. LOL. Probably blew up their house, too. Hence how she knew how to do it at the foster home.
Me: But I doubt she's killed anyone or then that many people... While Parker is fucked off to hell, she's not a murderer, but she would kill in a kill or be killed situation.
Kimber: She DIDN'T kill the foster, though.
Me: But if you think she killed her father, what was to stop her from killing anyone else like her foster? Once you kill, its like a drug. Or so people say >.>
Kimber: Ugh...there was one interview where Rogers claimed the foster family wasn't home when she blew up their house.... So....ONLY killing her dad wouldn't be that many people.... just one.... and maybe a few along the way as she grew up, yeah... if she had to....
Me: No I know, and it was on his blog.
Maggie: And on the commentary
Me: No, what I'm SAYING is that if she killed him, why would she not kill her abusive foster father too? Two murders is just as good as one
Kimber: Hmm...I wouldn't know...I've never technically killed anyone. So I can't say if it's like a drug or not. LOL
Me: I’m into reading into a lot of psychological profiles on serial killers and shit... and even people that just kill once, but really when you kill its like you think your God. And you'll do it again, with less hesitation the next time. My point? Parker is not a murderer. Not that I'm saying she isn't capable, she IS.
Kimber: TOTALLY! Though...now I wonder how she'd feel.... Would it affect her? If she did/has...or maybe that's some of what did effect her? IF she did kill her dad… ARGH!!! They so need to do more flashbacks!!! LMAO
Me: She'd retreat more into herself. Her psychological issues point more towards sexual abuse than being a murderer.
Kimber: Sexual AND physical. The defense mechanism...since she can fight.
Me: Well yes, physical tends to go with sexual, rape isn't non-violent.
Kimber: Well, if the person isn't struggling... With the "let 'em do it and he'll leave you alone" mentality...
Me: Parker's a fighter. She would never lay down and take it. No, she's not that fucked off.
Kimber: Also depend on how young she was, too.
Me: Everyone has the mentality to fight, it's instinct when you become so violated And yes, after time and time again it can break a persons mentality and they just SIT THERE AND LET PEOPLE DO WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT, LET THEM TOUCH THEM AND LET THEM TAKE WHATEVER THE FUCK TEHY WANT AND DO WHAT THEY’RE TOLD AND... FUbdskjf DAMNIT! I'm FUCKING DONE! FUCK THIS CONVERSTAION! Djlshf
Kimber: If she was an infant when it started....NOT in the foster system yet....she could have grown up thinking that was normal.
Me: JUST STOP! PLEASE STOP! I DONT WANNA TALK ABOUT THIS *is trying to calm down and stop crying*
Kimber: Huh?
Me: You don't understand! Parker wouldn't... she just wouldn't TAKE THAT SHIT LIKE I DID. She's BETTER than that!
Me: Fuck, nevermind! This has gotten entirely too personal.
And that's where that ended... and I just left. I was crying and having a slight panic attack. I totally didn't want to go there. EVER. I just... I wasn't expecting that to happen and I couldn't handle it. I can't handle someone telling me Parker might not have been strong, that she might have just taken it. I CAN'T believe that, I just can't.
Parker is better than that. She's so much STRONGER than that. And yeah she's fucked off all to hell and back, but she's OKAY. She's found something she loves and she's doing and it and she does it well, she doesn't let her fucked off past effect her like I do.
I just.. it's so stupid, but I look up to that character SO MUCH for that. For me to believe that she was exactly like me? I just CAN'T. Because then what? Then who the fuck am I? Why can't I just get past all the bullshit. I have to believe she's so much stronger than I am.
And I know none of this has ever been confirmed officially. But I see it in Parker, the way she acts and stuff. I've gone into that more in other entries so I won't now but... I'm convinced she was sexually abused as a child. But one thing I love about Leverage is that they DON'T ever tell you. As fucked up as it is, Parker being abused sexually means so much to me, and maybe someone else might have a different take on her past that means just as much, you know? But this... this is so personal and I just can't... fuck. You know what I mean.
My two favorite characters Beth has ever played? Parker and Kelly/Sue in that "Without A Trace" episodes. Why? Sexual abuse. In WAT... drugs too. That was the second thing I saw of hers after Leverage... and I was like man, I adore this woman. She portrays the emotions tied to that SO WELL its INSANE. And with Parker and Kelly/Sue it was like different sides of the spectrum. Parker's strong... Kelly/Sue isn't (she changed her name, so I'm unsure of what to call her. We'll call her Sue since thats her real name). And okay, Sue was strong in her own right. She refused to have her own daughter go through what she did and ran, which was the only thing she knew how to do. Parker fights, Sue runs. But they're both legitimate responses.
I'm just... I don't know. I have a headache now. I just have to believe Parker is strong. I have to. Parker is one of the few characters on television that have made me hopeful for my own turnout. Without that? Fuck it. I mean... really. Just fuck it.
The end.
Labels: abuse, beth riesgraf, debate, leverage, parker, rape
Wednesday, August 26, 2009
Parker vs. Sophie debate turned... bad. @ 1:30 AM
So me and Kimber started to have a very healthy yet passionate debate over Parker and Sophie and thier character arcs and stuff in the Leverage chat tonight (with Maggie, Tina, and Yu as witnesses to this whole ordeal) Unfortunately it ended up morphing into being just about Parker.
For those of you that have been reading this blog for awhile now, I have gone a little into why I love the character so much. I admire the hell out of her, and admire Beth Riesgraf for playing a character like that, to the point where it's just... really personal. There are so many things about Parker that I see in myself, except I see that Parker got it right. Parker's stronger. Parker's better. And it's just... Okay, I'll get to that afterwards.
I'm gonna post the debate, because honestly it is really interesting, and I think other's might find it interesting... until I flip out entirely at the end. Which I will explain. Fuck it. I... just don't care anymore. And really, I need to justify WHY I totally went insane in the chat. Rather not have people think I'm crazy for no reason.
Me: (talking about writing a Parker/Sophie physical fight just for the hell of it) But I don't know what the fuck would make them fight like that, and the fact that Sophie couldn't take Parker in a million years? Yeah…
Kimber: I think she could. Well....maybe not take her...but she could be a match for a LITTLE while....
Me: No she couldn't lmao. Don't kid yourself. Parker's TRAINED. Sophie? No. Ahaha
Kimber: She had to have gotten into fights before....and just when her strength starts to wane, is when Parker makes her move.
Me: While I can imagine her being STRONGER than Parker, Parker is way more skilled.
Kimber: Parker wasn't trained until ELIOT... and now they're all... how did Rogers put that?..."cross-training".... Sophie might actually be better... who knows? I just think Sophie COULD be good, IF/WHEN need be. Hand-to-hand combat is just more of a last resort for Sophie. Or in your story you could mention "Eliot's been training me, too" or something.
Maggie: Well she has been taking care of herself for a long time
Kimber: Like "When did you get so good?".... "Eliot's been training me, too".... That still wouldn’t explain WHY they're fighting, though. LMAO
Me: Parker was trained before Eliot! THE STORK JOB HELLO. Eliot didn't start training her until season 2
Kimber: I don't think that was "training" so much as "fight or flight"...the kid peeking through gave her the added "boost"... the adrenaline kicked in... she HAD to take him down to help the kids escape.
Tina: Sophie in a black sports bra type shirt with the black leggings sparring with Eliot.......... *comes back to reality* Sorry tangent thought
Kimber: I think, before Eliot, it was more....Parker could defend herself, yes....but *actual* training...no. Some people are naturally good at some things.
Me: Uh, did you not see her technique? Not many people who fight just to not be killed can do cartwheel kicky things and jumping up to hold oton a bar and yada yada… I mean most people just... don't do that.
Kimber: Parker's different, though.
Me: GAH. –headdesk- JUST LET ME BE RIGHT.
Kimber: LOL. Nope! hehe
Me: PARKER IS LIKE MY DAMN LIFE. LET ME TAKE THE WIN. DAMNIT
Kimber: I'll stick to Sophie.
Tina: "Think about when you’re father died"
Kimber: ROTFLMAO
Me: That line still doesn't make sense
Kimber: Why not? *confused* They've never specifically said how old she was when she was put in the system.
Me: Because either A) she was guessing and that’s just a weird ass thing to guess (possibly even rude) or B) Parker told her this, when Parker never showed any signs of being remotely close to Sophie, especially not where it was SUPPOSED to be placed, as the fourth episode. No way Parker would let a complete stranger know her past
Kimber: Sophie reads people for a living.
Me: You can't just read that someone’s father died.
Kimber: It's probably the "back plot" the audience will never get to see.
Me: Sophie reading people doesn't make her a mind reader.
Kimber: It's not mind reading.... but... wait... *tries to remember order now*... GAH! Aired eps or DVD eps?
Me: DVD eps
Kimber: Damn, I forget both....LOL
Me: Its supposed to be 1.04 and aired its 1.09
Kimber: Yeah, but The Wedding Job was before that.
Me: Yes, so? They didn't have any bonding scenes in that ep or any eps before that. That would make it seem like Parker would trust Sophie with that information. And no, I do not buy that she "read" it from her.
Kimber: Maybe she read something at the table.... her friend's little girl.... Parker was close to her... and it was the little girl's dad in jail... maybe Sophie saw something in Parker's eyes/body language and DID guess... just turned out her guess was correct. "Educated guess"....
Me: Beth plays Parker very well when it comes to body language and mannerisms. She also has worked out Parker's backstory on her own and plays it into how Parker’ reacts to things, so if there was something about it, Beth would have played into it physically.
Kimber: We just saw the little girl go to her mom when she said "Daddy's coming home"... We never saw any of the team. A slight hint of....longing? loathing?... something... in Parker's eyes as that scene played out that we (as an audience) didn't see.
Me: Yeah huh, the girl was on Parker's lap and they smiled and clapped. Besides, Parker has total daddy issues.
Kimber: Though I do think she killed him. LOL. Probably blew up their house, too. Hence how she knew how to do it at the foster home.
Me: But I doubt she's killed anyone or then that many people... While Parker is fucked off to hell, she's not a murderer, but she would kill in a kill or be killed situation.
Kimber: She DIDN'T kill the foster, though.
Me: But if you think she killed her father, what was to stop her from killing anyone else like her foster? Once you kill, its like a drug. Or so people say >.>
Kimber: Ugh...there was one interview where Rogers claimed the foster family wasn't home when she blew up their house.... So....ONLY killing her dad wouldn't be that many people.... just one.... and maybe a few along the way as she grew up, yeah... if she had to....
Me: No I know, and it was on his blog.
Maggie: And on the commentary
Me: No, what I'm SAYING is that if she killed him, why would she not kill her abusive foster father too? Two murders is just as good as one
Kimber: Hmm...I wouldn't know...I've never technically killed anyone. So I can't say if it's like a drug or not. LOL
Me: I’m into reading into a lot of psychological profiles on serial killers and shit... and even people that just kill once, but really when you kill its like you think your God. And you'll do it again, with less hesitation the next time. My point? Parker is not a murderer. Not that I'm saying she isn't capable, she IS.
Kimber: TOTALLY! Though...now I wonder how she'd feel.... Would it affect her? If she did/has...or maybe that's some of what did effect her? IF she did kill her dad… ARGH!!! They so need to do more flashbacks!!! LMAO
Me: She'd retreat more into herself. Her psychological issues point more towards sexual abuse than being a murderer.
Kimber: Sexual AND physical. The defense mechanism...since she can fight.
Me: Well yes, physical tends to go with sexual, rape isn't non-violent.
Kimber: Well, if the person isn't struggling... With the "let 'em do it and he'll leave you alone" mentality...
Me: Parker's a fighter. She would never lay down and take it. No, she's not that fucked off.
Kimber: Also depend on how young she was, too.
Me: Everyone has the mentality to fight, it's instinct when you become so violated And yes, after time and time again it can break a persons mentality and they just SIT THERE AND LET PEOPLE DO WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT, LET THEM TOUCH THEM AND LET THEM TAKE WHATEVER THE FUCK TEHY WANT AND DO WHAT THEY’RE TOLD AND... FUbdskjf DAMNIT! I'm FUCKING DONE! FUCK THIS CONVERSTAION! Djlshf
Kimber: If she was an infant when it started....NOT in the foster system yet....she could have grown up thinking that was normal.
Me: JUST STOP! PLEASE STOP! I DONT WANNA TALK ABOUT THIS *is trying to calm down and stop crying*
Kimber: Huh?
Me: You don't understand! Parker wouldn't... she just wouldn't TAKE THAT SHIT LIKE I DID. She's BETTER than that!
Me: Fuck, nevermind! This has gotten entirely too personal.
And that's where that ended... and I just left. I was crying and having a slight panic attack. I totally didn't want to go there. EVER. I just... I wasn't expecting that to happen and I couldn't handle it. I can't handle someone telling me Parker might not have been strong, that she might have just taken it. I CAN'T believe that, I just can't.
Parker is better than that. She's so much STRONGER than that. And yeah she's fucked off all to hell and back, but she's OKAY. She's found something she loves and she's doing and it and she does it well, she doesn't let her fucked off past effect her like I do.
I just.. it's so stupid, but I look up to that character SO MUCH for that. For me to believe that she was exactly like me? I just CAN'T. Because then what? Then who the fuck am I? Why can't I just get past all the bullshit. I have to believe she's so much stronger than I am.
And I know none of this has ever been confirmed officially. But I see it in Parker, the way she acts and stuff. I've gone into that more in other entries so I won't now but... I'm convinced she was sexually abused as a child. But one thing I love about Leverage is that they DON'T ever tell you. As fucked up as it is, Parker being abused sexually means so much to me, and maybe someone else might have a different take on her past that means just as much, you know? But this... this is so personal and I just can't... fuck. You know what I mean.
My two favorite characters Beth has ever played? Parker and Kelly/Sue in that "Without A Trace" episodes. Why? Sexual abuse. In WAT... drugs too. That was the second thing I saw of hers after Leverage... and I was like man, I adore this woman. She portrays the emotions tied to that SO WELL its INSANE. And with Parker and Kelly/Sue it was like different sides of the spectrum. Parker's strong... Kelly/Sue isn't (she changed her name, so I'm unsure of what to call her. We'll call her Sue since thats her real name). And okay, Sue was strong in her own right. She refused to have her own daughter go through what she did and ran, which was the only thing she knew how to do. Parker fights, Sue runs. But they're both legitimate responses.
I'm just... I don't know. I have a headache now. I just have to believe Parker is strong. I have to. Parker is one of the few characters on television that have made me hopeful for my own turnout. Without that? Fuck it. I mean... really. Just fuck it.
The end.
Labels: abuse, beth riesgraf, debate, leverage, parker, rape
credits.
